Hello Friends 👋

Annick Duvivier shares her experience in the NICU with her preemie daughter, Thalia, and her journey with pumping and breastfeeding. She discusses the challenges she faced, including the emotional toll of being separated from her baby, the difficulty of pumping and producing milk, and the loneliness she felt. Annick also talks about the importance of kangaroo care and the positive impact it had on both her and her daughter. Despite the hardships, Annick's resilience and determination shine through as she navigates the NICU journey. 

Annick shares her experience of being in the NICU and the challenges she faced as a parent. She talks about the strict schedule of kangaroo care and feeding, and the difficulties of coordinating pumping and breastfeeding. Annick also discusses the emotional toll of not being able to hold her baby for long periods of time and the isolation she felt without any visitors. She found solace in art and used painting as a form of self-care during her time in the NICU. Annick's painting, which depicts her pumping milk with stickers from the NICU in the background, is a powerful representation of her journey. Despite the initial concerns and risks, Annick's daughter, Thalia, is now a thriving three-year-old with no health issues. Annick encourages other NICU parents to be patient, prioritize breast milk, and seek support from available resources.

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Takeaways

• The NICU journey can be emotionally challenging, with feelings of loneliness and separation from the baby.

• Pumping can be difficult, and it may take time to produce enough milk.

• Kangaroo care is beneficial for both the baby and the parent, providing comfort and improving breathing and oxygen levels.

• Resilience and determination are key in navigating the NICU journey. The strict schedule of kangaroo care and feeding in the NICU can be challenging for parents, requiring careful coordination and preparation.

• Isolation and the inability to hold the baby for long periods of time can take an emotional toll on parents in the NICU.

• Engaging in art therapy, such as painting, can provide a sense of purpose and self-care during the NICU journey.

• Breast milk is highly beneficial for NICU babies, and efforts to pump and provide breast milk can be rewarding as parents see their baby's growth and progress.

• Seeking support from available resources, such as psychologists, support groups, and breastfeeding consultants, can help parents navigate the NICU experience.

• Understanding the language of the NICU is crucial for parents to navigate their baby's care.

• There are various resources and organizations available to support parents with babies in the NICU.

• Patience is key when dealing with the challenges of the NICU.

• Asking for help and delegating tasks can alleviate some of the stress of caring for a baby in the NICU.

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The transcript of today's episode can be found below 👇

Leah I was super lucky about, gosh, three years ago when I was sitting in a meeting for Breastfeed Miami, where I sit with amazing humans that work on human milk and breastfeeding issues around Miami and Florida, to be introduced to a family who was in the NICU. I was introduced by the representatives from WIC, which is Women, Infants, and Children, who provide

incredible support to families of mothers and fathers and children around the country and they have an outstanding breastfeeding program and they were in contact with this human who they were like you have to know Annick and they said you know she's in the NICU right now with her baby and she's painting and I thought to myself painting in the NICU that's something else.

Annick Duvivier Thank you

Leah And they said, no, but she's, she's there right now. Her baby was a super preemie. They couldn't share too much. And they said, but you must meet her. And I said, absolutely, absolutely. So this was in a hospital that we weren't providing support for yet. but just knowing these little bit of facts and knowing these amazing women who were referring her, said, I must know this woman. So today joining me is Annie Duvivier, who is a Haitian born Miami based artist.

known for her mixed media paintings. She explores diverse themes, the awareness of protection in nature, femininity, which I have some of her work and it is extraordinary. Her artwork has been exhibited internationally, including at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, the Yellowstone Museum of Art in Montana, Kimpton Epic Hotel Art Residency, she had a solo show there. and a solo show at the Hilton Blue Lagoon and also at the Island Space Caribbean Museum in Florida. It's everywhere, which is to the great gift of the world. Her artwork is in the public art collection at the Miami International Airport and in the City of Tamarack Public Art. She has private collections of the co -producer of Avatar and many, many more.

Annick Duvivier Yeah.

Leah Annick collaborated with prime store chains like Macy's, Bloomingdale's, and West Elm to create custom artwork for their main window display during Art Basel, Fashion Week, and Black History Month. She recently represented Haiti in the Art Fair African at Art Basel in 2023 among many master international artists. Annick studied fine arts at Altos de Chabon in 2008 in D .R.

which is affiliated with Parsons in New York if you're here in the States. She graduated with a BFA in visual arts at Miami International University, art and design in 2019. Beyond her painting, Annick works as an advocate for the Haitian Creole language. She's illustrated two storybooks during the Nabu Fellowship for Illustrators of the Haitian Heritage. The books are bilingual literature in Haitian Creole and English for children between 0 and 10 years old. They're available for free. And we'll have all of these links of all of her stuff and pictures of her artwork, which we'll talk about today in our notes page for you to all take a look at. So with the birth of her preemie daughter, Thalia, Annick helped our organization, ICU Baby, with our CREO translations. And she was one of our lead actresses in the videos which guide our parents on what to expect in the NICU. She is in the NICU Empowerment Support Tools video series, which is our health literacy series. So she's, if you've been watching her, that's her. Yeah, during her 112 days stay in the NICU with Talia, she was painting, like I said, the self -portrait with baby won first prize for the art of breastfeeding and was selected for the Miami -Dade WIC calendar, which I am looking at right now in my office.

And it was this painting that introduced her to me. The Hospital University Health Women's and Children's Hospital in San Antonio, Texas acquired that painting for their collection in 2023, which is extraordinary. That painting, which again, I'll have a little clip of it for you all who are listening in our notes, carries so much power with it. And so I'm so glad that it's made it to Texas.

She definitely continues to surprise us and reach greater heights. She was listed in the seven Caribbean women artists to collect and receive the award in 2023 of the Haitian Cultural Keeper from La Petite Club and the Dalencour Group. If she's not painting, you will find her spending time with her family or in the garden taking care of her plants and her orchid collection, which she also does paint about a lot.

Leah And I have one of the beautiful orchids in my home and I've given them as gifts because they are spectacular. Welcome, Annie.

Annick Duvivier Thank you so much, Leah. That was an amazing introduction.

Leah I could go on many days for you. Well, thank you so much for being here. It has been a long time coming. And it is August, which is Breastfeeding Awareness Month for the world, World Breastfeeding Awareness Month. And we met over breastfeeding because you were getting some support from the WIC breastfeeding team and you submitted this amazing piece of art for that art of breastfeeding event. And that's how we met. So I really wanted to come and have you share your story about your experience in the NICU with Dalia, and particularly your breastfeeding or what it is to be pumping experience in the NICU.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, because there was never any breastfeeding. It was always pumping. Always pumping.

Leah always pumping and I think that's something really important. don't talk about, think breastfeeding is one thing. Breastfeeding could be chestfeeding, it could be pumping, it could be bottle feeding, we're pumping and bottle feeding or we're directly breastfeeding from the breast or the chest. So what brought Talia to the NICU in the beginning? Annick Duvivier I have to start from the beginning of the beginning. I found out I was pregnant in 2021 and 2020 at the end of the year. And I found out in December and it was a very, very short pregnancy because in April, so like four months, I went to the NICU.

Annick Duvivier I had a little bleeding. I woke up one morning and I felt some kicks at the bottom. Usually they were on the side. So I called my cousin. She had just given birth in November. her baby was three or four months. And I told her, there was no pain, there's nothing, but I saw this little bleeding and I'm calling you. She said, call your doctor just like routine. So I called the doctor and he says, go to the hospital now.

Okay, like, but I need to take a shower. So I go, because I had no pain, nothing. It's early in the morning. Like if I go for a visit, I have to be clean. So I take a shower and the shower, there's the mucus plug that comes off. So I'm like, okay, something is wrong. So then I get my purse and I tell my husband, take me to the hospital now.

Leah Wow, right.

Right.

Yeah.

Annick Duvivier And I tell him, yeah, just drop me off, go to work. Cause he's a realtor. can come back after you're done with your tour. And, after, after different tests, you know, they start speaking Spanish, but I understand. they say, this, this, this is, there's a problem. There's a problem. Like what's going on, but they're not telling me anything. And they said that, no, they called your doctor. He's coming. And they tell me that I'm going to, I'm going to have a C -section.

that her feet are already out the cervix and it's, it's yeah, yeah. And they tell me it's going to happen in less than one hour. So hurry up. And they, I get undressed. They put me on a table and they drive me to, to the operating room.

Leah That's what you were feeling, those kicks.

Leah Did you make it all the way to the operating room?

Annick Duvivier Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they did a C -section. And then everything is a blur. I just remember her. I remember a lot of people in the room, like eight people. remember they have this cloth in front of you so you don't see anything. I remember my husband leaving the room and coming back. He told me he went to cry because it was too much. He saw my organs on the table.

And then, yeah, so I remember telling him, go cut the umbilical cord because he didn't want to leave my bedside at all. And so the rest is a blur. And I remember waking up in the bedroom after that in the hospital room. So then they tell me I gave birth because I don't remember. And so I said, OK, so where's the baby? she's underneath you.

Leah Yeah.

Annick Duvivier can I see the baby? you have to wait. You can't go yet. They had a change of nurse. They have a change of staff at a certain hour. And the hour that I had just woken up, I had to wait for the next change of staff to go there. And they told me I have to walk. Like, but you're just operating me. What are you telling me? yes, it's good for you. You are supposed to walk. So I'm like, OK.

Leah Right.

Annick Duvivier So they took a wheelchair, they wheeled me all the way to the front of the NICU, and then I had to walk to her bedside, to her little, I forgot the name of it.

Leah Isolette, how far did you have to walk?

Annick Duvivier Yes, isolate, yeah. I don't remember, but for me, every step was like a mile. It was a mile. And then you have to stand there, because I didn't even realize, like...

And when I saw her, I started crying because I didn't even realize how small she would be. And she was purple. Her feet were swollen because she had been kicking so much. Her feet was the size of a finger. This was the length of her foot.

Leah Wow, just the tip of your finger basically, the last part.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, she was one pound and a half and they told me she had 55 % chances of survival.

And when they told me she had to stay in the NICU, I didn't even understand what that meant. Because, I didn't know anything about the NICU.

Leah Had you ever heard those words before? NICU.

Annick Duvivier I had, but the same way you hear all the other doctor words, it doesn't mean anything. No, no.

Leah Right. Right, you didn't have context for what it could mean, sure. Yeah. And were you able to touch her at that point at all? Not yet.

Annick Duvivier Not yet. It was just outside the glass.

Leah And how many weeks was she when she was born?

Annick Duvivier She was 24 weeks.

Leah a micro preemie.

Annick Duvivier They told me the ones that survived were 26 weeks and more. And she had, yeah, a level three and four brain bleed. She had early puberty. She had early puberty. She had her breast tissue that was developed for some reason. She had white dots in her cyst.

So like early puberty, like puberty things go going on inside her body. She had white dots on her kidneys. She had the open PDA. The PDA is the heart valve in her heart. It only closes at week like 32 or 30. So it's normal for it to be open at that stage.

Leah Yeah.

Leah Right, in her heart.

Annick Duvivier So that's the first thing they told me, they need to operate that and close it because fluids from the lungs are going inside the heart and they're not supposed to. So that was the first, maybe the first few weeks, that's what they were focusing on, make sure fluids are not going in the lungs.

Leah It's all like a waterfall of information, I imagine, going from, I'm gonna take a shower, because I just have to hop over to the hospital, to having to understand all of these words and what they mean to you. Do you remember what you felt like your role was at that point? When they said, okay, I'm taking her to the NICU. How did you feel about what you could do at that point?

Annick Duvivier Yeah. Annick Duvivier Mm -hmm.

Annick Duvivier No, at that point, I think I was just cold and not feeling anything. It's like I block my emotions. Let me take you back to after I saw her in the NICU. When the visit was done, it was maybe a 15 minute visit. I couldn't stand any longer. They brought me back to the room and they gave me a breast bump and they told me it's time to pump. And I was like, pump what?

Annick Duvivier I like, what are you talking about? I mean, I knew about it, but I didn't know I was going to pump now. I just gave birth. What are you talking about? I'm still in pain. And they explained to me how this yellow thing works. And they plugged me and they started. But I'm like, there's no milk coming out. don't worry about it. Just keep pumping.

Leah Yeah!

Annick Duvivier So I pump, pump, pump, and I got maybe one syringe, like this much. They told me it doesn't matter. So they started bringing different syringes and every three to four hours they were coming and getting them and bringing it to the baby. And that's how the pumping started.

Leah Keep pumping.

Leah That's incredible, because that's like a golden hour that you have to get pumping right away. And they did that.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, yeah, they did that. And I, yeah, like, nothing was coming out. So it was like one drop. told me, yeah, it's gonna come, it's gonna come. It never really came.

Leah But you were like, where's that gonna come from, that milk? Somebody else.

Leah How long were, so you created those syringes, which is the colostrum, which they want to come out, you that's the first stuff that comes out usually. And how long was it before you created colostrum, before a little, like a drop would come out? Was it that day, the next day?

Annick Duvivier Mm -hmm.

Annick Duvivier Maybe the next day. But they did put me on a, they explained to me that I had to be on a consistent pumping schedule. It's not one time today, one time tomorrow. It's in a strict every four hour pumping for half an hour. And sometimes massaging first, getting a warm shower, and then pumping to try to have as much milk as possible.

Leah Okay.

Annick Duvivier ( But that was hard. That was really hard.

Leah Yeah, it's a very, I feel like, I feel like many people talk about breastfeeding in this kind of glowy light, right? you're breastfeeding is so sweet and so lovely. And it's so and I'm air quoting for those listening natural. And it can be all those things, but it can also be this feeling kind of forced.

sterile, uncomfortable because it's not warm. The pump is not warm.

Annick Duvivier Well, mine was closer to nightmare ish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a nightmare. Yeah. So when I got, they kept me an extra day at the hospital because I was just, I was overwhelmed. And remember I gave you the dates when all of that ha all of them, all of it happened because it was just at the end of COVID.

Leah Use the words. I want to hear them, Annick. Yeah, it was a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. Say more.

Annick Duvivier So no visits were allowed. Only my husband. He was there, but I sent him home because I told him, I'm at the best place possible. There's nothing you can do for me. Because your nurse is there, you're not a nurse. That was a mistake. That was a mistake.

Leah Hmm.

Was your husband able to be with you?

Leah No, no. Would they let him back in or no? Okay.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, I... No, yes, yes, he was able to come in, but remember, we also had a dog and we have, he has a son, so he couldn't sleep over even if he wanted to. Leah Yeah, he was divided.

Annick Duvivier Yeah. Cause I'm like, I'm in the best care. have meals provided. I have everything. Go home. You still have to walk the dog. You still have to take care of everything else. But I wish, I wish, I wish he stayed there. I was left there alone. Yeah. Yeah. It was hard. His first few days were really hard. And after the hospital visits, when, when I went home,

Leah Okay.

Leah and you were left there alone.

Yeah, that's really lonely.

Leah (18:52.52) Yeah.

Annick Duvivier That's when I broke down. Realizing that I'm getting home without a baby, I realized that there's an empty crib. I had just gotten a crib. I had just gotten a bassinet, thank God. realizing that the baby's not coming home for a while. So that was really hard.

Leah Yeah.

Leah What did they tell you about when she, like her, I know they had given you that percentage, which is. I know they have to give you these numbers and give you all the information, but it's really hard to swallow percentages like that. What did they tell you about expectations at that point? You said you're going home without her. Did they give you that like, well, you'll be here for how long?

Annick Duvivier They told me until at least 40 weeks until she hits all the milestones. If she hits the milestones before, she can live before. If not, she has to stay longer. And the milestones are breathing by herself, feeding by herself, herself, like swallowing, you know.

Leah Hmm.

Annick Duvivier Doing all those things without any machines without breathing with no oxygen doing all these things By herself before being able to go home But they told me first thing was the closure of the PDA So I said, okay, so when is this happening? They told me this hospital cannot do it because we're at Baptist Only Niklaus Children's Hospital can do it. So we have to transfer

Leah Okay, so all these relationships, maybe not very many, but you've established a little bit of a routine at one hospital and now you have to change.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, so about we spent about maybe two or three weeks at Baptist and It was great nurses were great The only thing I did not like but it's not because of them. It's because of our schedule My husband is a realtor and he goes to work. He has appointments at four or five when the clients are done working

And that's the time he could, or six, that's the time he could take me to the hospital. And that's the time that they have the shift, the change of shift. So you have to wait half an hour before being able, because they have to, the nurses have to talk to each other to give them, to know how he reports. Yeah, exactly. So when I was actually able to see the baby,

Leah Like report. Yeah.

Annick Duvivier it was getting later and later. So that was really hard for me. Sometimes I was there at seven and I had to wait until eight to be able to see the baby for half an hour, 15 minutes if I could stand and then go back home. So I was there for three hours, exactly. Yeah. No, no.

Leah Hmm.

Leah but only with Thalia for 30 minutes maybe, which is not a productive time, especially for a breastfeeding mother who ideally would be pumping at her baby's bedside, would ideally be trying to facilitate that. So that was a bad plan.

Annick Duvivier Exactly. So I had to wait, wait all day to get that 15 minutes. So that's how the first three weeks were. And then when we transferred to knee cloth, it was much easier because you could actually stay in the knee queue. So that it was much more comfortable because you had

Leah Mm -hmm.

Leah ( Yes, tell me about that.

Annick Duvivier There are separate rooms or there are rooms with a curtain that separates two families. Or you have the baby in one side and you have the little parent side. So that is very, very, it's very nice. It's very nice and comfortable.

Leah Mm.

Leah Did you ever spend the night there with her?

Annick Duvivier at the end, maybe the last few nights when they told me I have to figure out the medication schedule. But I spent my days there. I spent my days. I'd sleep in my bed. Yeah. Yeah.

Leah Well, you're recovering yourself too, you know? Yeah, you could have slept there, which I think eased the stress of separation, right? If you know that it's there, if you needed it, you could have used it, right? If something was going on and you're like, I can't leave tonight, you could stay. Yeah.

Annick Duvivier Mm -hmm.

Annick Duvivier ( Yeah. Yeah.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, you could stay, which was really, really comforting to know that I could stay.

Leah Right, right. Okay, and so your pumping journey began at Baptist where you were, you know, pumping with a machine, getting a little bit. Did it change much when you switched hospitals?

Annick Duvivier I was getting a little bit more. was getting maybe one ounce or two ounces. It was fine at first. She was only taking my milk and then her feeding started to, well, let's call it expand her feeding needs. So she started taking three, four ounces and I'm still producing one ounce or two ounces. So then they told me they're going to supplement with donor's milk. I was okay with it.

Leah Yeah, she was getting bigger.

Leah Okay. Annick Duvivier But I said, I need to produce more, need to produce more. So I was there, I was doing kangaroo time, two hours sometimes, almost every day.

Leah Wow, that's amazing.

Annick Duvivier Heh.

Leah That's incredible. about, let's talk about that for a second. How big was she when you were able to start doing that? Do you remember how many weeks she might've been at that point?

Annick Duvivier ( I started holding her one month after she was born. maybe 24, yeah, about 28 weeks. She was probably three pounds by then. Because at first, yes, at first it was just I could only touch her with two fingers inside the isolate. And then as she grew stronger,

Leah So around 28 weeks.

Leah and was she still on the ventilator?

Annick Duvivier and they removed some of the tubes. They told me I could start holding her. So I would put her on my chest and she would stay there and she would breathe better. And it was magical. It was a magical time. Yeah.

Leah That is, I'm so glad that you brought that up because kangaroo care is so crucial for babies. I mean, you noticed, you said she breathed, she was breathing better, her oxygen levels were better. You found her restful on you.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, she was peaceful. Sometimes I fell asleep with her on me. But they have like long chairs so you can be... Yeah. And the nurse is right outside so it's not too far. She's watching.

Leah (25:57.502) secure.

good. She's watching. Yeah. wow. And so for you too, it sounds like that was, you said your words were, there was a magical time. So what did you notice about yourself when you had her in kangaroo care?

Annick Duvivier Magical type, yeah.

Leah in that position. Yeah, how did you feel?

Annick Duvivier ( Well, I would forget myself. I felt, well, sometimes I needed to go pee, but they tell you you can't do kangaroo care for less than two hours or one hour and a half. So they're not going to move the baby for half an hour. So you better be prepared. That means you need to pump before, you need to eat, you need to be showered, you need to...

Leah Interesting.

Leah Right.

Leah Yes!

Annick Duvivier Like you have to have, you need to go to the bathroom. You need to have all your things done before getting the baby. Sometimes, and if you miss the schedule, then you miss the schedule, then tomorrow.

Leah That's right.

Leah Yeah, okay, let's talk about that schedule. Yeah, let's talk about that schedule. Yeah, there's some...

Annick Duvivier So everything was on a tight schedule.

Leah So the kangaroo care has that schedule, right? Those 90 minutes. The feeding also is tightly regimented, right? Ounces and fortifiers and time spent feeding. How was that for you as a parent fitting into that schedule?

Annick Duvivier Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yep.

Annick Duvivier (27:29.97) It was very difficult because my pumping was not at the same time as the feeding. And I didn't have enough milk to have a supply that was there laying down only for exactly the day or half a day. So if I came at an hour that they already fed her, then it's the milk that I'm producing now when I would arrive at the hospital that

Leah Hmm.

Annick Duvivier this is the next feeding. Because I didn't have enough. Literally. And sometimes after holding her for kangaroo care, if my usual is one ounce or two ounces, I would maybe get two and a half. So I would get a little bit more after holding her. So that was always nice.

Leah Right. You were on demand.

Yeah.

Annick Duvivier But one of the things that I did not like is that because they were so strict with the feeding and sometimes they would, because the change of nurses again, they would change their feeding schedule depending on which babies came first. One time they changed my feeding schedule. So let's say the normal feeding would be at nine. I arrived at eight 30 and at eight 30 she was already fed.

Leah Yeah.

Leah Mm -hmm.

Annick Duvivier So they already gave her formula. And that day I broke down because I changed all my feeding schedule for the night. So let's say if I would pump at eight, then I pumped at nine. So nine plus four. So let's say 12 and then 12, I woke up at three and then three, six. So I changed the whole night to be there. And then when I came, she was already fed with formula. So that was, I think that's one of the days I called you crying. I was like.

Annick Duvivier They just fed her. Leah Yeah, that's rage. I can imagine feeling angry and disappointed and just disheartened.

Annick Duvivier Yeah.

Annick Duvivier Cause it's, it's a lot of effort. Your body's still recovering. You're waking up at specific hours. You're not getting enough sleep. You're terrified of all the things, the news they're giving you from the NICU. You're seeing your baby, but you can't hold her for a long time. So all of it is a lot. Then you, yeah. And you can't have any visits. My parents were in Haiti.

Leah Yeah, and you're putting so much into this.

Annick Duvivier my family members, my aunt, she wanted to come, but they said no. It has to be immediate family only. So it's just, you're alone. You're alone.

Leah Yeah. And this was like, this, breastfeeding, I think, becomes a very much the pumping and the process, all of that. For a lot of parents, they share with us that it's like, it's like the thing that you really can do when you feel like there's not much you can do. This is something that you really can pour yourself and your energy, which tends to be a little, like, you feel like there's a lot more that you wish you could do.

Leah And so to have that power sort of taken away from you is frustrating.

Annick Duvivier Mm -hmm.

It was very frustrating. And I think that's where, so being an artist, that's where I saw the art of breastfeeding. And first thing I did was email them to find out more and when were the deadlines because I said, I need a lot of time. This is going to be a very slow piece.

So from April to, no, not April, I was already in the class, maybe the end of May to August, sometimes I was painting just 10 minutes a day. So I brought my canvases, my brushes, since I was in the NICU for eight hours. I said, might as well do something productive.

Leah Yeah, I would say. Annick Duvivier and between pumping sessions, because you get tired of the TV, you get tired of walking around. They had support groups, but because of COVID, I only had one session and then everything closed down. You couldn't be with a group of people. So it was hard.

Leah Right?

Leah And was art something that was, I mean, you're an artist, but is it something that brought you peace at that time? Or was it something that added stress? I don't know. A lot of folks work when they're in the unit sometimes because they don't wanna take time off or because, but what was it like for you to do your job, your work, but also your pleasure sometimes in the NICU?

Annick Duvivier Mm

Annick Duvivier My painting, yeah.

Annick Duvivier It was relaxing. It was not stressful at all. But sometimes the working position because of the C -section was difficult. So I could only do it maybe half an hour for the day. So I had to be very strategic on which part I was going to work on that day. So let's say today I'm doing one finger. That's it. Ten minutes I do the bass.

Leah Wow.

Annick Duvivier I could do a little bit more, I would do it, but that's it. And it was very relaxing and everybody was like, you're painting, what are you doing here? Are you allowed to paint? Like, yes, this is non -toxic paint, there's no problem. It's not oil paint, it's acrylic paint. So yeah.

Leah Yeah. Yeah. And this piece of magic is, it is, it really is. I can't wait for everybody who's listening to look at it and really spend some time watching it, because it's not just a painting, it's mixed media. Which I know you've done some of, but this is a special mixed media. Tell us about it.

Annick Duvivier Okay.

So I painted, it's a self -portrait of me with the breast pump and the back of the painting. So I'm pumping the milk. So it's a 2 a session. My hand is like this because I'm tired and I want to fall asleep. And in the back of the piece, I glued all the stickers of the Nikkei, because I went every single day I was there. Leah Mm -hmm. Yeah, on your forehead. Yep.

Annick Duvivier So you know the stickers that they give you with your face and the date. That's what the ID. Exactly, the visitor pass. So that's all the stickers in the background. And sometimes they have, some of them have dots because they had to do some COVID tests. So when they have dots is the COVID test.

Leah Mm Your ID, the little badge that every time you go in, they give you a little visitor pass.

Annick Duvivier And yeah, so I have all the story of when I was in the NICU pumping with the portrait in the front.

Leah It is such a story. It is such a story that that's why I find myself looking at it and I've shared it with our, I was lucky enough to be supporting you at that time and shared it with our mentors as it was coming along. And it was such a profound piece of art because so many of our parents can really relate to it.

that feeling of the constant day to day to day with the stickers, constant the stickers, they pile up these stickers and the commitment, the anguish, the hope, the passion that you have on your face in this with your hand on your forehead, know, you know, the commitment is really, yeah, like this might not be great, but I'm going to do this.

Annick Duvivier Yeah.

Annick Duvivier Yeah. And I pumped for seven months. She came home in August, mid August. Her due date was August 25th. So end of August, she came home mid August. So she hit her milestones two weeks before her due date. So that was amazing. Yeah. She was five pounds when she came home.

Leah Mm -hmm.

Leah Mm

Leah Wow, that's amazing.

Annick Duvivier and she was breathing by herself. She still had medication. That was another hard part. She had three different medications. She had high blood pressure, so she had some medication for that. I don't even remember what the other two were at this point. But yeah, but what was hard is that the pumping schedule and the medication schedule was different times.

Leah (36:40.028) I think that's a good lesson for all of us.

Annick Duvivier So let's say pumping was at two, medication was at 2 .30, and then I had to wake up to feed her again, like at 3 .30. So I would spend almost the full night, even if my husband was helping, he would take the first shift, I would do the next one, and he would do the other one. But that was still a lot, because I was waking up for pumping.

Leah Yeah, you spent your nights and days awake, I mean, having to get on those schedules between the two things.

Annick Duvivier Yeah.

Annick Duvivier So the first two to three months was like no sleep, no sleep at all. No sleep. Yeah. And then the doctor's appointment started. That was, I did not like that at all. Every week I had two to three to four doctor's appointments because they needed to see her on a regular basis. So we had pulmonology.

Leah That is hard.

Annick Duvivier for the lungs. She was getting RSV shots every month for four, I think four months or six months, I don't remember. And then she had the heart cardiology because they needed to verify the PDA. She had endocrinology because of the prepuberty. She had nephrology because of the kidney. So all of them were like, see you next week.

Leah cardiologist.

Annick Duvivier I just, just, why do need to come see you again?

Leah Hmm.

Yeah, it's NICU part two. Yeah.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, that I did not like that part at all. When I came at the NICU, was like, I'm done. It wasn't done at all. And then we started with early steps and the therapies. So we had early steps come two times. The ITDS would come twice a week.

Annick Duvivier first it was online because of COVID and then a couple months after she came to her home, she was really, really helpful because she taught me a lot of different techniques on how to care for her and what to stimulate. Like she was telling me, do tummy time because she needs to hold her head. I would not know these things, even if you read, but you don't know when to do what. So that was, was really helpful.

Leah Right, right, so it was helpful.

Annick Duvivier and then therapies were three times a week at first. She had physical therapy and occupational therapy. And then, yeah, she's still in therapy now for physical, but she graduated from occupational therapy.

Leah So how old is Thalia now?

Annick Duvivier Thalia is three years old.

Leah And what is she up to?

Annick Duvivier ( Thalia is amazing. She's fully bilingual. She speaks French and English. She makes full sentences. She runs, she jumps, she walks. She took a lot of time to walk. She was almost 20 months when she started walking, but she was already talking and making full sentences.

Leah Thalia really is amazing and she's really just come so far. I'm really just so impressed by her.

Annick Duvivier Yeah, they gave us a 55 % chance and she doesn't have any of the things that were on the list. She sees fully, she walks, she runs, she speaks two languages, she's bilingual, French and English. I'm surprised every day by her progress. Leah really incredible. And you mentioned that 55%. And as we sort of talked about it a little bit earlier, too, that those numbers feel really stark. How, when they were giving you this type of number, how were you able to keep up hope when you were in the NICU?

Annick Duvivier where with a lot of family help, I guess, I have my aunt that's a neonatologist. name is Alexandra Lespinas. And I was able to call her anytime 2 a in the morning, early, didn't matter. She would pick up if I had any questions and she would help me translate and understand the NICU words and everything that was going on.

And this is where the book that you created is so important. My NICU book, and this is why I wanted to be part of this project, because it helps parents understand the language of the NICU, what is happening with their baby, the milestone that they need to have to leave the NICU. So I'm very, very happy to be part of this project. And congratulations, because it's amazing.

Leah Thank you, Annick, and we could not have done it without you and the other families and medical teams who contributed to it. For those of you who listening, Annick is, I mentioned in the beginning, she's one of our actresses in the videos, but she was also a contributor to the content and absolutely to the transcreation into Creole, and you mentioned something there about understanding the words. So folks who speak English and you're in an English hospital,

Annick Duvivier (02:02.786) Yeah.

Leah still don't understand the words, because they're not, most of them English, they're Latin. Nevermind if you're coming from a place that doesn't speak English. It's so important that you can understand what's being said to you. So I'm really glad that you had that resource in your aunt. And we're really grateful because now your work with us at ICUbaby in creating the My NICU Baby book and all of those videos has made, hopefully it's like your pocket aunt is what we really want, you know?

your pocket friend to help you figure out those questions that you should be asking or make sense of words that just really don't sound like they came out of any kind of dictionary anywhere. So I'm really glad that you had that support. It means everything. And we're really glad that we have you.

Leah So you've shared so many amazing things with us here today. I wanted to see if you know there if there's somebody out there listening right now who's has their baby in the NICU either, you know nearby far away For one day or six months. Is there anything that you would want to share with them?

Annick Duvivier Yes, first of all, to be patient because it will end. There will be a day that you will go home with your baby in your arms. And then also to take advantages of all the help and support that is available to you. There's a 24 hour breastfeeding line. There is ICU baby. There's so many websites and so many, there's WIC, so many different associations and that can help you, can support you. So to be patient, I think that's the hardest thing, being patient. I was counting days every day. So yeah, sometimes you just have to make it through the day and then the night and then the next day. Sometimes it's just make it to noon. It's very difficult. It's challenging.

Leah (04:05.922) Yeah, it's.

For sure, yeah, yeah.

Annick Duvivier and it's challenging to take care of the home. If you have to, if you have other children, it's challenging. If you have pets, if you have anything else going on, it's challenging.

Leah Yeah, yeah.

Annick Duvivier (ask for help as well. If you can delegate, if you can get a food service, if you can get a laundry service just for that time, it really, really helps.

LeahYeah.

Leah Yeah, somebody told me once, this is the time to receive. And as mothers, we're givers, right? We're givers. And parents too, fathers are more and more in that role too. So we're used to having to do it all ourselves and make it all happen. So I love this message to receive. Let us help you. We're here to help.

Annick Duvivier I agree.

Annick Duvivierand you can ask specifically what you need. And if you don't know what you need, right, you do know you have your basic needs, food, laundry. So you can ask for that. You can ask for a gift card for restaurant.

Leah Hmm. Yeah, that's a good idea.

Annick Duvivier So you don't have to worry about cooking for the next few days.

Leah Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we have to stay well fed. Those Snickers commercials are not a joke. When we're hungry, we're not at our best. Yeah, that's true. Very true. Amazing. Thank you so much. Such a joy to have you. Any minutes that I get you, it's always a happy day. And I hope that everybody who's listening out there can feel your radiance and your wisdom coming through.

Annick Duvivier Mm -hmm. Annick Duvivier Thank you so much, Leah.

LeahAnd yeah, and for everybody out there, if you are sitting by your baby's bedside, maybe you're doing kangaroo care for the first time, or you're walking the floors at night worrying or watching your baby on the camera, definitely probably pumping some milk or breastfeeding, driving back and forth to the hospital. We know there's so many ways that we show up for our babies in the NICU. Annick and I want you to know that you are not alone. and we are here for you. Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to sit with you again next time. Take care.